Legally protected industrial bans on the transmission to the University of student assessment results are now in place at several universities across the country. Bans are currently on at Curtin University in WA, and Uni SA and Flinders in SA.
The purpose of the ban on transmission of student results is to impact on university administration. There is no intention to cause any serious harm to students. Students who believe that they will suffer undue hardship because of the bans should apply to the exemptions committee at their university.
University of Melbourne exemption application. (Melbourne bans lifted, 16 December)
Information for Melbourne staff. (Melbourne bans lifted, 16 December)
RMIT exemption application. (RMIT bans lifted, Nov 30)
Information for RMIT staff. (RMIT bans lifted, Nov 30)
Article from The Australian about the bans. (new, 24 Nov)
Student information flyer (Melbourne University only). (pdf, 800kb) (new, 25 Nov)
Please note: The NTEU supports the free exchange of ideas and opinions. We do not censor comments, but will unapprove comments that are abusive, contain swearing, use offensive web or email addresses, or are sock puppets. Thank you.
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UPDATE (16/12/09)
Results bans at the University of Melbourne has been lifted after an agreement was reached between the NTEU and the University. More here.
UPDATE (30/11/09)
RMIT results bans have been lifted after an agreement was reached between the NTEU and the University. More here.
Related posts (automatically generated):
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:14 am
In regards to the banning of publishing student results for RMIT.
Please advise as to whether I am able to graduate on 16th December at RMIT’s ceremony. I have worked very hard to complete my study and this is really unfair to ALL students. I have paid for my graduation and have family coming to the event to celebrate with me and I am sure that I am not the only student with these concerns.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:12 pm
You will need to apply for an exemption here: http://universitybargaining.com.au/students/rmit/
I have emailed the union voicing my concerns but unfortunately the only response I got was to apply for an exemption.
I absolutely agree that this is unfair to ALL students, and this action is not going to effect the functioning of the university half as much as it will cause un-necessary distress to students. This is compromising the futures of students as many students are still unaware of the exemption process so they will miss their opportunity for an exemption and will therefore go without their results, their graduation and opportunities for future studies next year.
I believe there are plenty of other ways to protest without causing such massive disruptions to students, as the students are the ones who are currently suffering due to the conditions the union are protesting against.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Y dount u thini about students? They are not involved but they are tool of university to negotiate with the union…
November 23rd, 2009 at 3:02 pm
I agree to the above comment
That are more than one silly, selfish ways to negotiate with the university rather than causing problems to those who are not involve.
I think they need to take more time and consider more before agreeing out such a selfish action like this.
November 23rd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
If we dont want to do the exams so can we strike or do some silly thing like this???? So so unreasonable
November 23rd, 2009 at 3:21 pm
i think this ban on results is absolutely ridiculous. exams are stressful enough as it is, and if the union felt it really necessary they could have at least timed it better – ie notifying students well before exams – not during the examination period!
i have an exam tomorrow and another one this friday, and the last thing i need to stress about is the fact that i may not get my results.
also, will students who failed be informed if they need to sit supplementary exams? melbourne uni supps start only 5 days after the offical results relase date. it would be grossly unfair to deny a student the opportunity to pass the subject if results are not released.
i am really disappointed in MUSU for supporting the ban and probably wont be joining next year. if you really care about us, don’t use us as your bargaining chip!
November 23rd, 2009 at 3:47 pm
This ban on results only hurts students not the university administration. It especially hurts students who are finishing their degrees and seeking employment next year who need their results to be released ON TIME. ALL graduating and final semester students should be AUTOMATICALLY exempt from this ban rather than have to apply for their results to be released. Students do not need this stress added to finishing assignments, completing examinations or searching for future employment. This action unfairly targets students who are also dealing with the fall out of recent cut-backs to their courses and the excessive over-crowding of tutes and lectures.
November 23rd, 2009 at 3:54 pm
wat the hell is this? totally unexpected.. and i think dat the point of dis action is to make students suffer so de university takes notice of de staff?? not getting our results on time is something we didn’t sign up for
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:48 pm
What on Earth do these unions think they are doing?
They may as well have a flag containing the hammer and sickle because they rule with an iron fist! If MUSU did actually allow for this to happen to us unimelb students then we should protest to have no one join the MUSU and force them out.
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:56 pm
I wish to echo the comments of anonymous: how does this hurt the universities at all?
We know that results bans will sufficiently annoy all students, that’s an established fact. Is this perhaps some novel recruiting strategy for the union movement? A desperate measure to recover from dwindling membership?
Get real. Find someone else to annoy, you can be a cartel any other day of the week, but at the end of the day, if you are willing to hurt the students, you deserve absolutely nothing.
November 23rd, 2009 at 5:04 pm
>>QuantumJG
I agree that taking student hostages like this is a stupid move from the union. And MUSU makes things much worse when they agree with NTEU, though I believe organising a protest is not such an effective action.
My recommended course of action is encourage everyone you know to sign up for exemptions. The more people sign up, the faster we are getting to end this crazy union action.
November 23rd, 2009 at 5:22 pm
The quickest way to end the union action is to tell University management to come to the bargaining table with a serious offer to reach a new agreement. Staff are bargaining for the quality of your education .. for enough people to be employed as academic and general staff to ensure that you don’t get stuck in classes the size of small nations, and to ensure those staff have time to give you quality feedback on your work. You will get your results. If there are urgent reasons you need them sooner, then you can get an exemption. Staff have not taken this action lightly. Nor is it the first or only action we have taken. Don’t attack us for standing up for our rights and yours. All that is needed to bring this to an end is for University management to get real and reach a deal. It is the managements that are holding students and staff hostage to their outdated agendas. My recommended course of action is to encourage everyone you know to send a message to the V-C telling them to stop delaying and reach a deal NOW!
November 23rd, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Linda:
It’s absurd to say that you are sticking up for anyone’s so called “rights” but your own. I don’t pay for my results to be delayed, and neither does any other student.
November 23rd, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Linda: staff are not being attacked for campaining for better rights, but for the way in which they choose to do it, which is affecting students at what is already the most stressful time of the year, and you can’t deny that.
i can’t see how it’s fair to drag students into something they are not involved in, nor have any ability to control. it’s basically saying “if we don’t get what we want, someone else doesn’t get what they want” or in our case, what we have EARNED by working or ar**s off for the entire semester!
November 23rd, 2009 at 6:23 pm
To any NTEU member that supported the ban on student results, take a good hard look at yourselves. You are a disgrace to the educational institution. How dare you punish paying, hard working students because of something your employers are not doing for you. Last time I checked, we didn’t have any control over that. This is a great way to get a lot of people against you and your cause, and I hope it does.
November 23rd, 2009 at 6:28 pm
The NTEU should pay back to students a percentage of their semester fees for this rubbish campaign designed NOT TO AFFECT THE UNIVERSITY but THE STUDENT.
The minute you cross over the line that affects students is the same minute you lose credibility. Yeah sure. Fight for you rights, but don’t you DARE justify it as protecting our student rights.
What continues to amaze me is teh self-righteous behaviour from academics who think they should be paid more to dish out more crap. I can personally name a dozen or more academics who get paid and do VERY LITTLE for their students and do even LESS when they apparently don’t “have time”. And what, the NTEU is bargaining to help support and reward these blotch marks?
Shame on you.
November 23rd, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Linda:
The main issue I have is not with the action itself (although I’m not particularly overjoyed with the timing or choice of action taken) but the fact that this has all been to poorly handled and communicated by the union and it’s members.
Many students are still unaware of this action and are therefore not going to get the chance to apply for an exemption. Thousands of students will log into their online account or go to the university on Monday morning only to be told there are no results. As a third year student planning to graduate in less than a month I find that frightening, as a number of students will now not be able to graduate and will not be able to continue their studies next year as they will not be able to submit applications on time.
This action has not been communicated effectively to students, leaving many in the dark. I was not told about this ban until a friend casually mentioned it to me on Facebook, and that is not good enough! If she hadn’t told me I wouldn’t have known that I needed to apply for an exemption and I would’ve completely missed out on graduation and honours next year. What part of this is fair?
It is now one week until RMIT results are due to be released. This means the union has one week to grant exemptions, let staff members know which students have exemptions and for those staff to then enter exempt students grades into the system. This will add increased stress to already overworked staff. No good will come of this action, as upsetting students WILL NOT get them on side.
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Can anyone tell me how i will be able to get my results? I’m only a first year so as far as i can see i have no real reason ie i dont need my results to graduate or anything but i do want them. is it worth me applying for an exemption?
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Linda & everyone else supporting this ridiculous action – How can this form of industrial action, that negatively impacts thousands of hardworking, innocent students, be justified by you? The issues you are facing with admin have nothing to do with us. I cannot believe that the RMIT SU has backed this – It jeopardises our futures and it does not help your cause. We have been stuffed around enough this year with strikes and such – you have no right to make us suffer for an issue we have nothing to do with! How dare you do this to hardworking, honest, paying students who have done nothing but stood by you in your effort to get better working conditions and more $$ in your hip pockets. We don’t deserve this and you may as well have taken a gun and shot yourselves in the foot by doing this because I know I and many of peers will cease to give a toss about you and your plight and you’ll be all alone fighting the big bad world. Grow up and stop holding our marks hostage – It doesn’t affect the administration – only all of us – and trust me, you want us on side – well done – you’ve lost your only supporters – the student body that you’ve managed to royally screw over – I am so mad I could scream right now!
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Anon:
Unfortunately you’ll probably just have to wait. Obviously results will eventually be released, so unless you need them in a certain time frame I don’t think you will be given an exemption. The exemptions have been offered for students who have due dates for graduation and applications for further study etc.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:56 pm
I would tend to agree with a lot of the above comments. Most students probably would find this very annoying, and be less supportive of the NTEU’s cause due to this action. I also am somewhat disappointed at the MUSU’s support for this, surely its support alienates a lot of its members including myself.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:06 pm
What? This is insanity, this type of action hurts the very people that keeps staff employed and they should be assisting in every way possible to create a positive university experience. I’ve supported previous actions by the NTEU before but seriously this just makes me pissed.
Obviously different in scales, but its like nurses striking and not caring for their patients.
And personally I’ll sit my final exam tomorrow, and my current employer probably won’t offer me a full-time contract until I have passed, most other students from my course will be in the same position how will they know about this action? Plus this screws a lot of 1st/2nd year students over.
Anywhere that an official complaint can be made?
November 24th, 2009 at 12:11 am
I attempted to make a complaint to the Union but all I got in response was the expected “we’re doing this for your benefit yadda yadda” and they told me to apply for an exemption (so they obviously didn’t actually READ my email because I said in the email that I had already applied for an exemption).
November 24th, 2009 at 12:42 am
The senior administration at the University of Melbourne have shown time and time again to be completely unwilling to listen to student complaints, concerns or campaigns. So why do NTEU and UMSU believe the backlash/student outrage (which they hope will be directed at said administration and not, instead, at the unions) from the withholding of results will change a thing?
Student opinion didn’t stop the Melbourne Model, or course cutting, or the absorption of the VCA by the School of Music. There is empirical evidence for this. And in the face of this evidence UMSU has opted instead to support the punishment of those they are meant to represent?
I’m a paid-up member of the UMSU for 2010 (what I hope to be my honours year), but it seems to me like my best interests aren’t being looked after. There are more constructive ways to achieve what they want than inconveniencing and even potentially harming their very reason for being.
November 24th, 2009 at 12:54 am
This is a joke. The MUSU support this only because it’s something to protest and make a fuss about. How could they actually justify this? They’re meant to represent the interests of students, how can they support something that is only going to harm them?
November 24th, 2009 at 8:51 am
You fools shouldn’t make students the scapegoat of your petty agenda. You wouldn’t have jobs without the students. Any students who were foolish enough to support these unions in the first place will now surely see how pathetic they are.
Shame on you for being so selfish. Remember why you work in education.
November 24th, 2009 at 10:34 am
This is a cheap cheap tactic.
Typically when industrial action takes place the workers make a personal sacrifice in some way. How many in the NTEU are collecting a pay cheque while this is going on?
Causing acute pain to students while not making the typical sacrifice yourself is a bit rich. It is clear that you aren’t doing this for the student benefit, but rather using students as a bargaining pawn.
Much of what you say about this being for the students is either hypocritical or dishonest. Feel free to pick the one which suits.
November 24th, 2009 at 11:29 am
I hope the union will refund the money I paid for my graduation in 2 weeks time. Like all of you I have worked my bum off for the past 3 years and want to graduate, not to metnion the student fess we have all been paying. None of us have paid for this C**P!
I am an ex TAFE teacher and I have never seen such S**T tactics to get an outcome. Being a techer is like being a doctor or nurse, it’s a calling and always, always the student should be of the upmost concern.
What on earth do you think you are going to gain by doing this? This IS CAUSING UNDUE HARSHIP AND STRESS ON ALL STUDENTS THIS IS AFFECTING, what absolute nonsense to say that this is being done to impact the Uni’s administration..for God’s sake how is it going to do that!!!!!
This stinks and I hope you all feel ashamed of yourselves.
November 24th, 2009 at 11:32 am
I do believe academics are underpaid and overworked, and not just in Australia, but I don’t think that strikes will cause a long term solution to this problem. I don’t understand why people are so upset about results coming out a few days later then they would have anyway. Its not a big deal.
November 24th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Ben: A few days?
My results are suppose to be released on the 11th of Dec with my graduation on the 15th. And without results, I can’t graduate! It affects us student a lot!
November 24th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
should that be ‘censor’ comments?
November 24th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
As if Unimelb students don’t have enough going on right now with all that Melbourne Model c**p! I’m doing a theatre/literature double major and am in the last intake who will be able to do so. Whether or not I’ll be able to complete these majors seems to change every second week depending on who I talk to and now I won’t even know if I’ll have the required scores to do my subjects!
Not only that, but I need my scores to apply for scholarships and grants, most of which are due by mid-december. I have supported the NTEU in all their strikes this year, I think the way they are treated by administration is terrible especially in the Arts faculty, but this is a deliberate effort to inconvenience and disrupt students.
Finally the fact that UMSU is supporting this action is unforgivable. I will not be renewing my membership for 2010, if all they provide me with is a free bbq once a week rather than support when we are being manipulated in what is not our fight.
November 24th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the correction.
Kind Regards
Webmaster
November 24th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Guys, stop posting saying “how does this help students, it only helps your hip pocket”. I’m a RMIT student who also happens to be very mad at this. But if we all get off our high horses and take a step back- we can analyse this situation properly and objectivly.
Having results withheld is very annoying. Agreed.
Students graduating or those who need marks for scholarships/transfers deserve exemptions. Agreed.
This is “soo unforgivable for UMSU to support this action”. Disagreed.
What you have to understand is, yeah those who are graduating (transfering/scholarships ect) need results. And im sure that they will get exemptions. But the main target audience for this issue is first and second year students, students who are just starting their UNI journey. These are the students who will suffer the most from what the UNIVERSITY (not the union) are doing. They are the people who will recieve sub-standard teaching and educational opportunities because classes will be have to double or tripple in size. Now I know it’s an inconviniece not to get it on results day, but come on you lot, it’s not that bad. Somebody has to take a stand for future students’ rights and we all need to THANK the union for doing so.
How would you have liked it if you were starting your UNI life with classes double your size? How would you like it if the only contact you had with a teacher was after a lecture for a brief minute? How would you like it if you recieved no support from academics? [And i can go on] That’s right, you wouldnt like it. But this is what future students will be subjected to if nothing is done. And guess what, the University is an organisations, and all they care about is making money [cutting teachers, bigger classes, less this, less that] so dont think the Uni is going to say, “oh poor students, we should give them an extra teacher”.
To rap up, yes it’s annoying. But it’s not that bad, and if it improves the quality of teaching and academic transfer, then we should be all for it. Not attacking the union.
Take a step back, stop being selfish [over a few days] and look at the big picture. Stop caring about yourslf so much [espc when it's only being withheld for a small amount of time].
November 24th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
George, get real. There are better ways to make a point than taking innocent people hostage. If a homeless person robbed a bank and took you hostage, would you say they shouldn’t be punished because you believe that the government should be doing more to help homeless people, and the person deserves the money they stole? I think not.
November 24th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
I encourage you all to contact someone from your department at the university to find out the situation. I did this, and was told that it has to be specific lecturers who choose not to submit the marks as part of the union action. I was informed that so far nobody in my department has chosen to participate in the ban thankfully, and marks are currently being entered as usual. Hence it will not affect when my results are released.
November 24th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Z: Hostage? Stop it, please. That’s got to be the worst example Ive heard in my life. Its a few days of withholding your results? What’s the worst that can happen? No honestly, I’d like to know, whats the worst that could happen if you dont get results on the 30th? What’s so bad about getting them 7-8th dec? La Trobe releases results in mid-dec. I’m sure their students dont feel like their being taken as hostages..
Z, either be logical or continue sounding like a spoilt brat. Either way, it doesnt bother me.
November 24th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
I’m a teacher at university, but not involved with this result ban action.
I don’t know anything about how well the ban has been communicated or if the exemption system works OK, it sounds like this leaves much to be desired, but I do know first hand that there is a serious problem with the way universities value and treat their staff and students and that this has caused a significant decline in the quality of undergraduate education in Australia over the past ten years.
Most of the university teachers I know are committed and caring educators and I would be astonished if they are striking out of greed. If money or material success was a strong motivator for us we would not be teachers! For example in my field graduates soon earn more than their (in some cases brilliant) lecturers.
Universities are important for the development of Australia. Education supports and generates intellectual capital for Australia as well as helping us develop as a society. Yet our academic workforce is aging and not being replaced, and our brightest minds choose the business world or leave for other countries. And why not? Academics in Australia have very harsh work conditions.
Improved conditions at university won’t directly benefit those of you who are graduating now, but it will benefit future students, and it will benefit your children. Otherwise, if things keep on going as they are currently, my advice is to send your children to university in America, Europe, India, or China.
Best wishes for your remaining exams. Your teachers are proud of you and of what you will achieve.
November 24th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
George:
If you attended the university, which you clearly don’t, you would be aware that results are meant to come out on the 10th. If you had read the concerns of others, you would also be aware that graduations are meant to begin on the 13th. I know of students who are studying in faculties which will be withholding marks, and they will not be able to graduate without their marks. In one case, a student’s family have organised to come from overseas to attend a ceremony which is now potentially in limbo. Would you like to explain how these people how they are not being taken hostage?
November 24th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
To anyone who believes that poor quality of education is the issue here:
“It’s a fact of life that people love to complain, particularly about how terrible the modern world is compared with the past.
They are nearly always wrong. On just about any dimension you can think of — warfare, crime, income, education, transportation, worker safety, health — the twenty-first century is far more hospitable to the average human than any earlier time.” — SuperFreakonomics
The “poor quality” of education is just an appeal for the union to get its way with their payrises.
November 24th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Z,
Firstly, I never said I attended Melbourne Uni. Read my first post.
Secondly, I’m pretty sure those who are graduating will recieve an exemption. Which I also said in my first post?
Collin, just because education is better now than the past doesnt me we should get complacent. Nobody doubted for a second that education now is better than what it was in the past. That isn’t just because of teachers, it’s because of technology, transportation, health and so on. I don’t get how that quote leads you to beleive that nothing should be done? Please explain
November 24th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
The post above (by Richard) said the quality of education is declining.
False information.
November 24th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
I see…
But I must say, I think education is now where near where it could be in this day and age. And there is a risk that it can begin to go backwards if nothing is done. [not saying that what the union is doing WILL force that change, just saying that we should support them for making it a social issue and try to push for a change to happen]
November 24th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
George
Every single person I speak to that attends uni has not heard anything about the bans, and as such would not be ab able to apply for an exemption. Tell me how this is fair? The NTEU have put plenty of time into making themselves sound righteous and organizing the bans, but next to nothing has been done to ensure that students are not inconvenienced.
I don’t care how bad their situation is, The fact of the matter is they are risking the graduation of a lot of my friends and an internship that I am applying for. If they want to know what difficult and poor conditions are, maybe they should try teaching in an impoverished location, or overseas.
I have looked at it from every angle, and I, including many people I know who work in the education sector think that it is a disgraceful action.
Personally, I hope that their demands are not met, otherwise whats to stop them from doing this again next year? And they year after?
I encourage anyone from RMIT who has an issue or questions with the ban to email Neil Robinson at nteu.president@rmit.edu.au. If they truly are looking out for students best interests, they deserve to know what you think.
November 24th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Why on earth should students be penalised for the sake of a bargaining process between staff and the university?
It’s disgusting. I’m appalled that the University of Melbourne Student Union would side with these morons and AGAINST the students who they exist to serve. They should be ashamed of themselves.
The fact that the union has developed an exemption form where students can plead for their own results is insulting – they should not have to do this. Staff should engage in negotiations with their superiors and leave us the hell alone.
November 24th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Please advise how graduating students at ALL of the universities affected can apply for an exemption, not just RMIT. I’m a UQ student and expect to graduate in less than two weeks, and send my confirmed results to an employer. As a full-time UQ staff member as well, I can tell you that this type of action does not make me sympathetic to the shenanigans of NTEU.
November 24th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
There has been a 30% (inflation adjusted) drop in government funding per local undergraduate student over the past decade. (See Education at a Glance: OECD Indicators 2007)
“Australia has been the only developed country to reduce its public investment in tertiary education over the last decade. Since 1995, Australia’s public investment in universities has gone backwards by 7 per cent, compared with an increase by other OECD countries of 48 per cent.” – http://www.alp.org.au/download/now/education_revolution.pdf
Between 1990 and 2006 the student-staff ratio has increased *every year* and by 2006 was 59% higher. (http://www.universitiesaustralia.edu.au/documents/publications/stats/SSR2006-stats.pdf)
Dedicated teachers have tried to cope with these declines in the inputs to the education process in a range of ways such as a greater reliance on technology, and by working harder and longer hours. In my own case I don’t think I’ve worked less than 60 hours/week this semester. As much as we can we have tried to bear the brunt of these changes rather than passing them on to students.
In spite of our best endeavours I feel there there has been a drop in the educational outputs over the same period. I have a great affection for my students and this causes me great distress. For example, students who start to slip can often be nudged back on track by a small amount of early intervention but I no longer have any time to do this.
This is not primarily a pay issue, the union is working to improve working conditions in general.
November 24th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Regard to the result ban to Melbourne University
I will graduate at the end of this year. My provisional graduation ceremony is on Dec 15. My family will come here from overseas. This way of protest is EXTREMELY selfish and ineffective!!!! I will apply for my new visa once when I receive my graduation certificate. If the result is banned, all plans will be delayed, which adds unnecessary risks to students who have worked very hard throughout the years!!! Again, this is very SELFISH+STUPID! I strongly disagree to this action.
November 25th, 2009 at 12:10 am
Collin:
I think your quote applies to people who are complaining here, too.
Also, if the quote is true (and it isn’t necessarily true in virtue of being quoted), then it seems society has gotten better precisely because, at least in part, of people of those constant complaints (especially in the cases where those complaints have been legitimate – the author does allow for that possibility)
And
“The post above (by Richard) said the quality of education is declining.
False information.”
The absolute quality (i.e. better/more comprehensive than previous generations) or the relative quality (i.e. it could be better given what we have)?
I think you mean false for the former, but it seems true for the latter – Surely things can be better.
Anon:
you probably know this, but it doesn’t risk your graduation, since you can apply for exemption and graduation/internship is a good reason.
I agree, though, that the NTEU could have done much more for the students. I only heard about it by chance. Im sure a lot of people will be surprised and, if the results ban isn’t lifted by the time results are meant to be out, there will be a lot of angry phone calls around unis.
If the NTEU were doing this for the students, they would have made a greater effort to notify the students about whats happening, why it is happening, what can be done to get results, and how exemptions may be granted.
George:
I know some people are concerned about the possibility they may need to do a supplementary exam – if the results aren’t officially processed, i suspect there might not be a supp exam, and the students will be shocked when they discover they cannot move on to the next year’s subjects because the subject they have now failed was a pre-requisite.
That sounds like one of the possible worst-case-scenarios. Though i suspect that the NTEU in all their wisdom will have thought of a solution that does not genuinely disadvantage the students.
If they did not think something like that through, and that outcome becomes a reality, then what are the educators trying to teach us? Go to war but don’t mind the civilians?
November 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
With this ban, I might not graduate from my course because i can’t get result access for a THREE-DAY elective course.
November 25th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
@Richard:
“Otherwise, if things keep on going as they are currently, my advice is to send your children to university in America, Europe, India, or China.”
USA or Europe, yes. India or China — heck no.
@Andrew:
“Why on earth should students be penalised for the sake of a bargaining process between staff and the university?
…[snip]…
The fact that the union has developed an exemption form where students can plead for their own results is insulting – they should not have to do this. Staff should engage in negotiations with their superiors and leave us the hell alone.”
My sentiments exactly. They tried this nonsense last semester too. For some reason that backed away from it. Now they’re doing this BS again.
They want pay rises but a heck of a lot of ‘em are as incompetent as parade of monkey and are wholy unqualified to teach at college level. No where near on par with what I would expect from a uni.
And now they do this rubbish to the students.
November 25th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
I went online to sign up for the part-time UMSU membership for 2010.
I won’t be signing up now.
In my experience, it’s administration that’s been there when I needed help anyway.
November 25th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Hey :) I paid approximately $128,000 for my degree, and I am due to graduate in december. Without the timely release of results, I will not be granted candidacy to sit a final examination. Without this examination, I will not be allowed to graduate, and I cannot retake the subject upon which that paper is based, as I am due for National service (which will keep me away for two years) and as such I am ineligible for academic deferment (this has the effect of rendering my degree null and void).
I came to Australia from my home country with the sole purpose of education (not employment), and as such I have spent alot of money sowing into the Australian economy through school fees and living expenses, because somehow I knew that there was something appealing about the Liberal Democracy that you guys have, the freedom of speech, and the belief in free enterprise and private competition, where each person has their rights upheld (no, I’m not from China). For the last 5 years, I have had a reluctant personal reflection on industrial action as one way in which the common man can rise up against the unwanted fruits of capitalism and gain a better quality of living for those that are affected. All these things are a measure of checks and balances to ensure that no one entity, whether it is Corporate, State or Federal, has too much power and fails to act in the interests of the public.
NTEU is not acting in the interests of the public. The self-perceived white knight that it is, has become the oppressor of the common student. The students who pay full fees and who study hard in cramped apartments or in the libraries late at night. Whenever any one entity takes away something from the public for its own purpose, it is Tyranny. I left my country to study here for the sole purpose of escaping Tyranny, because I know that intellectual freedom can never exist in an atmosphere where Tyranny goes unchecked.
I know that Citizens of western Liberal Democracies are proud of their economic and Political systems, and with good reason, because it works. It brings prosperity and individual freedom to its people. However, if we do not pay attention to the entities within ourselves that try to take away what we have to serve its own selfish agenda, we will one day be eaten apart by this cancer, and the rights and freedoms which we have taken for granted will be gone.
November 25th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Apply for the exemption and stop being lame. You lame-o (s) for plural.
As for the union, thanks a lot! you could of chosen another time but obviously you play dirty.
As for uni, I’m not surprised by this rmit, another retarted thing I had to witness before leaving.
As for some of the endless arguments above, seriously log off this site your rubbish has done my head in.
As for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, repeating students and etc if we all survived the teaching conditions in the past so shall you. This is a commandment. (sorry God i’m not blaspheming)
Apply for the exemption now and contact Neil Robinson to direct any questions this ban won’t change anytime soon so hurry up if you want to graduate.
Ps. I got exempted hence the opinionated msg =D thanks a lot union =D
November 25th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Way to go on your so-called “protect students and staff from evil uni” thing, NTEU! Now I have to apply for an exempt in order to continue my visa-related stuff. You have now a very very low reputation, at least to me.
November 25th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
People seriously wake up and if you think this is such a selfish action spare a thought for the staff that put in their hard work and hours to help you get your degrees! The university consists of three groups the administration, the teaching staff and the students. Why did you receive a good education? It was because you had committed but overworked staff. Over the years universities have be continually underfunded,staff redundancies have been rife, staff workloads have sky rocketed, and contracts that offered decent pay and job security and being replaced with annual contracts offering lower pay, less super and no certainty for the future! The NTEU has staged many protests this year and I watched students casually cross the picket line without a care in the world for what their staff were protesting for! They are protesting for better conditions so they can give YOU a better education. The NTEU has resorted to this action to make YOU, the students the people that matter, the only people the university listens to because you supply all the funding, finally take notice. You all speak of selfish actions well it seems all of you only start to moan and care when the strike directly affects you – so you could be labeled as selfish as well.
Spare a thought for your staff and stand by them they helped you get your degree! If you want to be angry send your letters to your Vice-Chancellors demanding why staff are so over worked and underpaid.
Selfish ha, step outside yourself and have think why it has finally come to this.
November 25th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
@Anon:
“Why did you receive a good education? It was because you had committed but overworked staff.”
Speak for yourself. I received a good education because I worked my ass off, *in spite* of the incompetent teaching staff I had (barring a few exceptions).
The majority of what I know I taught myself, outside uni. YMMV.
I *wish* I had committed and knowledgable lecturers and teaching assisstants, like the ones you described. Very rarely was this the case. I can name maybe two or three occasions out of the 3 years I studied at RMIT where I had great teachers. The rest were rubbish.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
What Alex says is spot on, and it definitely applies to Melb Uni, too!
However, I have to say that at Melb Uni the NTEU’s influence seems to be so pathetic, that most staff just ignore them and the bans are going to have almost no effect.
The union should give up.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
I am seriously worried about this ban. I am to graduate on the 16th of December. I applied for the exemption on Friday but have received no correspondence of approval of receipt of my exemption request.
Could someone tell me what is going on. When will I get a reply? The form to fill out says fill if your in Melbourne University what about RMIT?
November 25th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
This is ridiculously unfair, especially for those who are graduating. And I am appalled that the information has just reached me with results to be published on Monday and will probably not have enough time to get exemption approve before Monday.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
@concerned: RMIT has a similar form: http://universitybargaining.com.au/students/rmit/
November 25th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
I received an email from my lecturer right after my exam, notifying me, as a student of one of the most respected universities in the world, that the negotiation between the academic staffs and the university has affected me as a student, release of my results will be delayed.
I recognise that every human being is entitled to be treated fairly. When we think that we are not being treated fairly, we have the right to voice it out, to protest, to negotiate. And, I understand that Australia is a country of human rights. It is one of the reasons why I decided to pursue my further studies here. I had always been excited to come here. However, at the end of my very first semester, I realised that how people exercise their rights at the expense of others’.
It is to my disappointment that the learnt academic staffs at The University of Melbourne, while exercising their freedom of speech, freedom of action, knowingly affect the rights of students–use our results as bargaining chips. We, the students, who have paid full fees in time, did not ever, directly or indirect, affect the rights of our professors, lectures and tutors to receive their pay. In return, these academic staffs exploit our rights to receive our results at a promised date.
To me, personally, the NTEU is inconsiderate and irresponsible. The inability of the management of the University of Melbourne to resolve this matter is very disappointing. Letting NTEU to ban the release our results shows that the management is ineffective. Academic staffs who participated in this conduct are unethical, they fight for their own benefits at our expense.
The results bans gives me a very bad impression of the academics in Australia. Because of this, I will be reluctant to recommend Australia as a good place to further studies to my friends. How can unethical academics educate professionals-to-be (who are expected to observe professional ethics) effectively?
The academic staffs are represented by NTEU. Our representative, Student Union, can someone stand up and say “we are affected”?
I do hope that the conflict between the university management and academics can be resolve soon and will not be escalated.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
for F sake, I have worked so hard all year and I am burning to learn my results for semester 2.
In every facet of my life I have been impacted by Unions, not protected by them when I should have been (and paid to be!!!!!). My conclusion on Unions is that they are selfish, never look to anyone but themselves and the bonuses they will get when the job gets done regardless of who is hurt or inconvienenced in the process.
I will try to apply for an early release but this is creating work for more people to isolate me.
Yes the teachers work hard and should be paid accordingly but the students are also paying and are we getting what we paid for?
November 25th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
UQ ban has been lifted:
The University has been advised by the National Tertiary Education
Industrial Union (NTEU) that NTEU members (both Academic and General)
will now not proceed with a planned ban on the recording, or transmission
to the University, of assessment and exam results effective today,
25 November 2009.
November 26th, 2009 at 7:08 am
All the students have worked so hard and they’re so disappointed their results are delayed – get real, the academic staff have entire careers to fight for. These people (or at least all the ones I have come across in my degrees) have a serious interest in and commitment to their students and they deserve to take the action required to improve the conditions of their jobs.
Academics are being treated disgustingly by the money-grubbing administrations of universities and by the government. So our results might be delayed a bit, big deal. Admittedly I’m not graduating this semester, but for those who have applied for internships/scholarships/jobs, I reckon sending in a well-written explanation with intelligent comment on the issues involved would probably impress those assessing your application a whole lot more than most people’s grades. Do you really think having results delayed will affect you that badly? Do you think the people involved in assessing your application don’t understand what’s going on?
For god’s sake, can’t you see it’s affecting thousands, not just you, and no one’s going to die of it, or have the rest of their lives ruined. I doubt a single person will even miss out on a job or some other opportunity because of it. If your family is travelling especially to see you graduate maybe they’ll be happy just to see you because they love you, they’re not going to disown you just because they can’t take photos of you in a stupid hat. It’s the students who are being selfish according to a lot of the above comments. One inconvenience being blown out of all proportion. How about having some appreciation for the people who have taught us.
And if you’re going to be angry, be angry with the administration (I was angry about that propagandistic email they sent me). But maybe consider giving a small sacrifice for those who are constantly sacrificing their time and effort to educate you – and doing it above and beyond the laughable remuneration they receive.
So stop whinging about having paid for your education, you’re sounding just like the disgustingly economic rationalist university administrations who have so damaged the quality of our education in the first place. Doesn’t education have more than a dollar value, isn’t that why academics bust a gut to educate us even with crappy conditions and crappy pay? You may have paid for your precious degree, but your money didn’t go to the right places – or rather people – so get angry about that, not angry with your teachers.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:55 am
I strongly support this action as a student of RMIT. Anyone who is graduating should apply to the exemptions committee.
It is absolutely time that RMIT stepped up their game and came to the party to ensure that all staff have equal, fair and well-paid working conditions.
It is a joke what RMIT can get away with. I totally agree with the above comment. If you are going to be angry – get upset with RMIT who have only showed pathetic action in terms of real bargaining for the staff that work tirelessly to educate us. Have you not noticed the bigger tutes and the tired staff! This university is becoming more money hungry by the second – it is disgusting.
This bargaining will benefit all of us as well – probably signifcantly students more than staff in terms of us being able to receive a better education.
So I say stop the whining and think about the greater good – and if it really is such an issue – email the VICE CHANCELLOR of RMIT and tell her how you feel.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
This action is absolutely ridiculous. What will happen if doctors go on strike? How much mental stress it is causing for students who are awaiting results? While I will not send any comments to media here (to avoid giving further publicity to this stupid action) I will tell all my overseas friend not to come here. You will be better off in China or Malaysia. This country has been taken over by racists and unionists and gone! I sincerely hope and pray some of the children of those staff who are striking also awaiting their results for their job, future & life.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
It’s a sad state of affairs when university students fail to support their teachers and mentors.
If these whinging, selfish students actually paid some attention to what’s going on in their university community, they would understand that many of the million-dollar salary Vice-Chancellors and their henchmen have not come to the bargaining table with bona fides. Others have.
If these solipsitic students spoke up months ago in support of the people who impart the knowledge that they came to uni for, perhaps we wouldn’t be in the position we’re in. Yes, your lack of support is partly to blame for the Universities’ rotten behaviour.
The other day I saw that uni students were being arrested at UC Berkeley for protesting fee hikes and the firing of many janitors. Ask yourself when’s the last time anybody at uni in Australia actually gave a s$i*t to support members of their university community.
I suggest that those individuals who want their results posted soon should send mass emails to their university administration directing them bring some bona fides back to the bargaining table, NOW!
November 26th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
After hearing the news about the bans on results, it was a concern for me and i believe for most international students. I, as an international student, have paid so much for the school fee and yet so much troubles and/or issues came across throughout the year, be it the reduction in the number of staffs and now, the release of results. I believe that international students in the university that i am studying now, take up at least 50% of the whole university population. Imagine one student is paying $28000 per year, times the number of international students in the university, it would therefore logical that sufficient number of professional staffs could be hired! Trained/ professional staffs would ensure a better quality of education that could be delivered to students. So after paying so much, I or we seek for the best level of education possible.
Issues regarding the banning on the release of results, etc SHOULD NEVER affect students and that university’s body must act professionally in solving those problems WITHIN its organisation!
November 26th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
@MRL:
I agree with you in essence, but the reality is that UC Berkely (or any other US Uni) has far higher quality teachers (profs/TAs) in general and thus the students have a lot more respect for them.
How do I know this? Many of those Uni’s publish full lecture recordings on youtube for the world to watch for free. I quickly saw just how far behind in terms of quality my uni is compared to say MIT or Stanford. And guess what: it has nothing to do with the use of hi-tech gadgets {projectors} or the like. The MIT professors were writing on old fashioned blackboards with chalk. It’s the knowledge the profs have that makes all the difference between our staff and theirs (barring few exceptions).
If our uni’s were on par with {MIT/Stanford/UC Berkeley}, I’m sure students would have a heck of a lot more respect for the teaching staff. In my experience this has not been the case. Of course, even if it were there is the problem that we have relatively low standards for entry for many difficult courses, allowing many kids with no real interest or dedication to have a place.
Sadly, even those with dedication will be disappointed once they see just how bad the teaching quality is in general here. No, I’m not talking about the facilities. We don’t need more computer labs. Kids have those at home. If the lecturer can’t say or write anything meaningful on a white/blackboard in an hour they are useless at their job and don’t deserve a pay rise.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Alex-
Sydney, Melbourne, ANU, and Monash are each respected universities globally.
Yes, there are many sub-par programs and faculty in Australia, but you should know that there are many “diploma-mills” in the US as well (e.g., the entire CSU system and many private universities).
And guess what: there are only a couple of private universities (e.g., Harvard, Columbia, Stanford) where the VCs are making a million-plus, unlike in Australia, where each VC of a G8 university (and others) are making nearly or more than a million in direct compensation, not to mention the house and car allowance and other significant fringe benefits.
I don’t buy the notion that student apathy with respect to supporting their teachers is connected to poor teacher performance. It sounds more like a personal anecdote that isn’t reflective of the university community in general. All universities have some slack and unapproachable faculty. Each of the universities noted above have many world-class teachers and academics on board.
A university community that fosters respect, hard-work and loyalty will always attract the best student and teaching talent. The bottom line is that most students don’t give a s%$t and simply want their degree and a job, which explains the utter lack of alumni donations in Australia.
Regards.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
So, I guess this has already been aired, but I can’t help feeling like the student body are once again being used as pawns. As if having classes cancelled during strikes wasn’t bad enough – after all, we pay for them and we pay a sizable sum – perhaps not expesive by comparison, but still a lot of money. I was angry about that, but this is even worse. It’s one thing to take away the key service offered by a university, but it’s entirely another to toy with the headpsace of students that by and large work very hard to get to this point.
What’s more, I feel as though the NTEU may just be generating distaste towards itself, rather than towards the administration of the university as intended. If they think I’ll be doing their work for them by whinging to the Uni management, well, they’d better re-think.
I’ll be doing my next degree by distance education. Where will your tertiary educators be then, NTEU?
November 26th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
If this affects my graduation, I will sue NTEU fellas for every single penny they have got.
November 26th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
I think people working at uni are overly paid and underworked. Who ever is involved in this NTEU’s unnecessary student harrassment should be made redundant.
November 26th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Regardless of what, NTEU has no rights to use any of the students’ rights as their rights without the consent of the students! this is far too much. Many students need the result for graduation to seek for jobs.
November 26th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
@Alecia: Yup, my mum will be happy to see me….after I worked 3 jobs during the semester to support myself and bring her over for my graduation. Great job NTEU!
I’m just glad that none of my lecturers are involved and have promised my whole graduating class our results. And we appreciate them as well not just in uni but also outside.
3 days to get back to me??? Nope, didn’t get my exemption yet. Thankfully, I don’t need it. You are not efficient enough to do what you promised and I just realised I gave you confidential information – i.e. full name + student ID…You guys have no right to those info!
November 26th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
I do not see how withholding students results will do anything other than exacerbate tensions. Education is primarily for the STUDENTS and it is us who will suffer due to this results ban, it is hard enough when we miss important lectures due to strikes. Staff need to find an alternative that will cause less hardship to the people that they are there for in the first place.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:12 am
I find this whole banning thing as selfish means to attain benefits by the academics. You have no right to abuse your power as professors and staff of the university by banning the results.
I applied for exemption on last Friday, no response. I call NTEU, they say they will get back to me , when? The results are due on Monday.
Does NTEU have any clue what kind of harassment they are putting us through?
I am an international student, I am supposed to be graduating this year.
Does NTEU have any clue on the impact they are causing.
@ Alecia :
You aren’t a graduating student , you have no clue of the impact of this delay. Its easy for you to support the ban. You probably are even getting support by the VIC government to pay for your education. As an international student , its not just the university fees, the visa conditions , job opportunities and a lot more that is at stake. Before calling any of the students who are voicing against the ban as selfish put yourself in our shoes and look.
@ KK :
The way RMIT works I definitely think the staff is over paid. The quality of education we receive is pathetic. They claim to make errors misprinting course brochures. They print a degree is accredited but once they receive your enrollment, after a semester they come up making an excuse and say sorry it was a misprint on our prospectus, your course has not received full accreditation from Engineers Australia. This is the kind of work RMIT does.
I would like to protest outside RMIT not only to have the salaries of the staff reduced but on the whole get a new staff and management itself, someone who is more responsible, someone who can make decisions and someone who can address a situation.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:26 am
After 4 years of hard work, when you finally think , ‘Yes I accomplished it’, when you want to heave the sigh of relief, ‘Yes ,I achieved it’, but there comes new drama: there is a ban on the release of results and the student union supports it. what???
Please for heavens sake stop messing with my happiness. Release my results on the said date and time. I cant take this sort of torture.
NTEU, find another source to bargain, Maybe try mass resigning from you posts at the university. Put your jobs at stake, protest on the lines ,’ increase pay or we quit’, don’t play with the students.
To all the lecturers and professors who are participating in this protest, we appreciating you putting in effort to teach us, we admire you for what we are but this kind of action ruins everything.
I now regret the decision to study in Australia. Wouldn’t ever recommend Australia to anyone from my home country for education.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:34 am
This is appalling. To bring the student body into a debate between the staff and university, and to have THE students pay the majority of short term pain, so as to “better pay” for the lecturers is simply absurd. Why do I, as a student of RMIT, have to pay for effectively a problem which i am not a part of, nor care about.
I have come along way from the person i once was, and all my family ever wanted for me was that ‘bit’ of paper (“..if they desperately need that bit of paper to get their dream job, we’re not denying them that”…), Jenni Morris, sarcastically referred to. I’M SORRY BUT THAT PIECE OF PAPER MEANS A LOT MORE TO ME THAN THIS STUPID DEBATE.
I am outraged that the idea of a ‘bit’ of paper for one’s ‘dream job’ is the only thing that Jenny Morris can believe as a reason to object. HAS ANYONE THOUGHT ABOUT THE STUDENTS FAMILY? ABOUT THE ACCOMPLISHMENT THE STUDENT HAS ACHIEVED? THE PRIDE THE STUDENTS FAMILY MIGHT HAVE AND THE WANT TO SEE THEIR CHILD GRADUATE?
In fact i do not need this ‘bit of paper’ for my ‘dream job’, but more so to get into another course at Melbourne University… but of course, what the student wants means nothing in this debate, between staff and employer. To use the hardworking students who have EARNED THE RIGHT TO GRADUATE as pawns as stand over tactics is just sickening…
NTEU SHOULD BE ASHAMED (Although i’m sure this post will just be ignored like all the others…)
November 27th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Really disappointed with this action. Currently I’m a student union member who is willing to implement another stupid, counter-productive protest action. If my results are delayed ONE DAY I will not be renewing my membership next year – cutting your nose off your key demographic may cost the union movement long-term damage from those most likely to support collective actions.
So stupid and petty behavior that only hurts those you are paid to help.
Get with the times and think of a smart concept that affects those you are targeting. This action is proof those who cant must teach – and what a lesson you have just taught – Screw the Union.
November 27th, 2009 at 10:33 am
The NTEU first and foremost has a responsibilty to its members. The fact that it tries to engage and inform students of its actions and the effect these actions may have on students is a gesture of goodwill.
The University has a responsibilty to inform students of anything that may impact on students. That the university chooses not to inform students of results bans is not the fault of the NTEU and its members. The NTEU does not have access to student email accounts the university does and therefore its reasoanble to expect that the university would put out a statement saying that results will be effected.
Academics have as much right to with hold their labour as any other employee. The labour of the academic contributes to the result and the result is as much the property of the academic as the student. In certain professions management hold workers to ransom because they know that any action impacts heavily on third parties. At times this is the case in higher education.
Why should staff working at Melbourne University accept an agreement that doesn’t rank in the top 10 agreements in the nation. After all Melbourne University trades off being the number one university in the nation, so its only fair and reasonable that its staff should seek the number one working conditions in the tertiary sector.
November 27th, 2009 at 10:43 am
I’m really surprised at the comments here! Staff HAVE tried many other methods of negotiating better working conditions with the University and their pleas have fell on deaf ears. This is NOT a selfish action! This will make conditions better for students as well. Smaller class sizes, better resourced subjects, more time with lecturers and tutors… I have been in classes where students haven’t been able to get into the lecture theatre because the subject is over full and the university refuses to run another stream. I have sat in practicals where I sat there and did nothing for the entire hour as there weren’t enough resources to go around. I am racking up a massive debt and in return I’m receiving a poor education. I have studied in other Australian institutions and overseas and thus far, Melbourne has proven itself to give students the worst academic conditions. The buildings are pretty and there’s a good student culture, but I’m here to learn and so far Melbourne hasn’t delivered.
November 27th, 2009 at 11:54 am
I support the NTEU’s actions. The Universities in question, and many others, haven’t listened and won’t listen. They won’t negotiate reasonably, they hold all the power, treat staff and consequently students with gross disrespect and make the University environment one which is not committed to learning and sharing ideas, but rather committed to addressing profit margins and churning out employable graduates who will continue to contribute to an already pretty rubbish society.
The fact that I will be negatively impacted by the action is negligible. All of you who are complaining need to consider the broader picture. Yes, you have worked hard to complete your degree. No, you are not directly responsible for the way staff are being treated. No, you did not have a say in whether this action went forward. But this is your community, and to suffer these harms _THEN COMPLAIN TO THE UNIVERSITY_ is your role. If you want it to end, hassle your Uni to negotiate a fair outcome for the staff.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Dear everyone,
I think a more effective way to raise these concern or weakness is Lecturers and students would have organised a demonstration at Parliament House so that the State government can be influenced and letters to parents who always support the better provision of quality eduction.
On a “contract” point of view, I would think that the Uni has breached its obligation by this banning process. May I have opinion from Law study students.
November 27th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Please advise as to what exactly this ban means. Does it mean that ALL students will not be receiving their results or is there criteria for who does and does not receive them? You need somewhere that explains what exactly is happening rather than just saying ‘Results Ban’…
November 27th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Trong – don’t think that there haven’t already been protests, stop work actions and so on. It’s been tried with little result.
And the Universities aren’t participating in the results ban; it’s the decision of the staff, who ARE allowed to participate in ’stop-work’ action such as this.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
I think it is obvious that action needs to be taken regarding the class sizes – that I cannot question. Salaries: I have no idea what staff earn or what they are worth. It is true that tutorials can be cramped and staff can be inaccessible. For this; action must be taken – but can you think of some other protest that doesn’t harm Australia’s reputation as the academic nirvana you pronounce it to be? (if you disagree – you might want to check the validity of any pay-rise)
This one seems to really affect the international students at their time to shine and reflect what a wonderful place this is (arguable on many levels, but it is how I personally feel). The bitter/sweet taste the NTEU has generated for graduating students is so harmful that I blush when I try and explain the rationale of this. The students who pay a fortune to live, share and learn here have planned all year to bring out their family from over-seas to meet their friends and see their school, and by witholding academic results from them may stain their finale and moment of glory.
I envisage this action may ultimately reduce class sizes by reputation – not action. (implosion of employment within education is also at risk here) So, I agree with the sentiments: ‘look at the bigger picture’ and look wide across the oceans and try understand the motivation for cross-cultural education and at least let the international students continue as planned and GIVE THEM THEIR RESULTS – (I am Melbourne born and bred – I am not suggesting this for myself)
Surely the NTEU are creative enough to achieve their goals without the collateral damage. I’m sure this motion was carried after two days of head-banging at your AGM but you can still hold your stance, achieve you goals, get solidarity from ALL staff and students and ammend your strategy. (no doubt, reduce the amount of justified claims for exemptions that is now apparent you cannot contain)
Good luck with your objections NTEU
Good luck to the graduates who will be most affected &
Good luck to the future of exporting knowledge
November 27th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
@Laura: I believe it means the results are simply delayed from being released. For how long, however, remains to be seen. Presumably until the NTEU and the Uni Mgmt. reach some sort of agreement.
Who knows when that will be.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Jeez guys, we all seriously know how to play into the hands of the big ol’ corporations don’t we? We’re all in this together, sometimes I really bl**dy hate Australians individualist notion that its all about little ol’ moi. Like George says, so what if we haveto be a bit patient for a better outcome for all? I’m a third year student- I don’t get to to go through to honours until my exam marks get released but, still. Direct your anger at the universities that treat education like its just a money making machine, don’t play into their “how dare unions prey on innocent students” tactic- sometimes we just have to suffer a bit of pain to change things. Its kinda called working together for the collective interest… but in the mean time if you can’t seem to handle that concept- and are angry and feel like its unjust- then direct it to something that’s going to have a positive outcome for others– be angry at the universities and tell them to step up. If it hurts, at least try and make it so that tertiary education improves.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Read below for a student’s account of the NTEU exemptions process.
http://bit.ly/7DyaMP
And hashtag #NTEUfail on your Twitter if this has been bugging you too!
November 27th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Laura, I don’t see how your comment makes sense – “Direct your anger at the universities that treat education like its just a money making machine, don’t play into their “how dare unions prey on innocent students” tactic”
Why should I direct my anger at the universities? They didn’t tell the NTEU to treat students like bargaining chips. They didn’t tell the NTEU to withhold our results.
The NTEU are the ones who have come up with the idea of withholding results. The NTEU are the ones who decided to do it. The NTEU members are the ones who will not be transmitting the results. Therefore, the NTEU is to blame for the harm, distress and resentment that is being caused.
When it was the University cutting subjects and staff, I was upset with the University. But now that it is the NTEU who is doing the damage, why shouldn’t we direct our complaints at NTEU?
November 27th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Why do graduating students at Flinders Uni all get an excemption but not those of us graduating from other unis?! Is their graduation more important? Are they put in a worse situation than the rest of us? Of course not! Why just them NTEU!? No logical reason that’s for sure! Way to make enemies out of an entire graduating year of students NTEU. I’m a union supporter but you I don’t support your poorly thought out actions.
November 28th, 2009 at 3:13 am
NTEU using students results against the school management simply shows how despicable, backstabbing, selfish and ignorant these bunch of people are. If you feel it is unfair of the management on their terms on YOU, then just jolly well QUIT and GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
If the teaching quality decreases, students enrolling will eventually decreased.
If we have unions SUCH AS YOU, USING STUDENTS AS A BARGAINING CHIP, thats just pathetic and sad.
Just show how much maturity and sensibility of these UNIONISTS have!
USE YOUR OWN CHILDREN IF U HAVE TOO, NOT OTHERS!!!!!
November 28th, 2009 at 3:16 am
The exemption form is just a JOKE.
YOU EITHER GET PEOPLE SUPPORT YOUR CAUSE OR NOT!
DON’T FORCE UNWILLING STUDENTS TO BE INVOLVED IN YOUR TRASH FIGHT!
SHAME ON YOU MUSS FOR SUPPORTING THIS ACTION!
THIS IS AN ABHORRENT BREACH OF LIBERTY AND FREEDOM OF STUDENTS UNWILLING TO BE ANY PART OF THIS SENSELESS SKIRMISH.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:48 am
I am from Melbourne and attend Melbourne University, and I too am supposed to be graduating on December 15th. My parents are flying in from overseas especially, and had to buy a second set of tickets to make it. I have worked SO hard this last five years and to get my degrees and into a graduate program – and I will not get to celebrate the fruit of my labour with the two people who have supported me the most.
Yes, I have sent in an exemption form, but am still waiting. I am not optimistic given the rejection that so many have already recieved.
My parents are teachers, and I have always shown my support for the unions, but know from now on I will NEVER support NTEU or MUSU again – and I am not alone.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:20 am
The Federal Government has been trying to break the union power in Australia for a long time. As a mature age student I support the NTEU.
The last employer I worked for was able to exploit the workers because of the laws regarding the job title. Sub contractor. This meant that they could ask me to leave without reason anytime they felt like it. They were charging all contractors $25 a week just to work for them. I refused to pay and consequently was let go. I had no union to fight for my rights.
This experience taught me the value of Unions.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Sharon, a lot of people are treated unfairly at work. Guess who are the most vulnerable? Casuals, young people and international students. Guess who is being negatively affected by the NTEU? Students, who are often casuals and mostly young.
So while I believe fair workplace relations are important, I also believe that the way you go about achieving fairness is important. It’s a ‘the ends don’t justify the means’ thing. The NTEU is using an unfair method towards a supposedly fair end and that is what students here are upset about.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Just a comment to everyone who is complaining about using students as bargaining chips.
I have never known any union, no matter what industry, to take industrial action lightly, for unions know when ever industrial action is taken it’s the people who use the goods or services of their employer who suffer the most. This is the very nature of industrial action.
If public transport workers go on strike, it’s the people who use public transport who suffer.
When teachers go on strike, which has happened this year, it’s the kids and parents who suffer.
Doctors or nurses going on strike stops elective procedures, so people who have non-life threatening conditions take longer to get treated
About the only time when this is not the case is where the employee applies penalties that the user does not suffer, e.g police not issuing speeding fines. Do we complain when police stop processing fines as a part of an industrial action, no the community supports them. The type of industrial action that academic staff are taken is the same in nature as this, not doing paper work, admittedly with very different results.
What other choices do the uni staff have in industrial relations?
Some people suggest that they should threaten mass resignations, well as some unis are trying to get rid of a few hundred staff, and whole departments the uni might just say go ahead and accept some or all of these, if staff quit they don’t need to offer separation packages.
Do they strike when students are on break in January ? Well most of the senior uni management takes their own holidays then so probably would not even notice.
Do they go on strike during semester and cancel classes… Well they tried this and it did not work.
In most cases where results bans are on the NETU has been talking with the unis in question for 18 months, for a current offer of a pay increase significantly less then what uni’s like Sydney uni has ALREADY agreed to, with worse conditions.
Academic staff are getting ready to release results, they still marking, and finalising grades just not entering the grades. This also allows students who do need the grades to get the grades.
Academic staff could have chosen to strike during the exam or marking period, which would have caused even worse delays.
If the NETU could come up with a form of industrial action that did not affect students it would have, and I am sure would welcome any suggestions to that effect have any a chance of working that they university and not make the university happy (such as mass resignations).
Academic staff don’t like this any more then the students do, but don’t see any other option that would make the unis listen.
November 28th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
# Matt Said:
November 28th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Just a comment to everyone who is complaining about using students as bargaining chips.
I have never known any union, no matter what industry, to take industrial action lightly, for unions know when ever industrial action is taken it’s the people who use the goods or services of their employer who suffer the most. This is the very nature of industrial action.
Don> Unfortunately this is the basic nature of industrial action — and
Don> there was much soul-searching about ways to cause maximum “pain” to
Don> the university administration and have minimum impact on teaching and
Don> learning.
Don> I hope that I can be forgiven for thinking that some of those who are
Don> complaining loudest about the results ban seem to be students for
Don> whom the “grade” is the essential part of the equation. Yes, grades
Don> are important, but when faced with a choice between not teaching as
Don> industrial action and not submitting grades – the choice was clear.
What other choices do the uni staff have in industrial relations?
Don> Strike during the semester and not provide the education that we hope
Don> that students are here for? Not really an option. *This* would really
Don> hurt students.
Don> Protest and picket at events being held by the Administration — this
Don> was done and it turns out to be problematic — if there is apparent
Don> movement in the negotiations and the protest is called off – the event
Don> happens and there’s no way to go back and retrospectively hold the
Don> demonstration when the administration does not bargain in good faith.
Some people suggest that they should threaten mass resignations, well as some unis are trying to get rid of a few hundred staff, and whole departments the uni might just say go ahead and accept some or all of these, if staff quit they don’t need to offer separation packages.
Do they strike when students are on break in January ? Well most of the senior uni management takes their own holidays then so probably would not even notice.
Do they go on strike during semester and cancel classes… Well they tried this and it did not work.
Don> And academics are most strongly reluctant to engage in this action
In most cases where results bans are on the NETU has been talking with the unis in question for 18 months, for a current offer of a pay increase significantly less then what uni’s like Sydney uni has ALREADY agreed to, with worse conditions.
Don> And, in the case of RMIT, bans and a scheduled protest were called
Don> off in mid-June after the RMIT Administration promised to have an
Don> agreement finalised by the end of July. (Of course, they may not have
Don> mentioned which July.)
Don> Is it any wonder that RMIT staff are angry?
Academic staff are getting ready to release results, they still marking, and finalising grades just not entering the grades. This also allows students who do need the grades to get the grades.
Academic staff could have chosen to strike during the exam or marking period, which would have caused even worse delays.
If the NETU could come up with a form of industrial action that did not affect students it would have, and I am sure would welcome any suggestions to that effect have any a chance of working that they university and not make the university happy (such as mass resignations).
Don> No question about it- the most difficult thing for the NTEU is
Don> convincing members to engage in activities that adversely affect
Don> students. Something that directly affects the administrative processes
Don> without affecting students is exactly what members would want.
Academic staff don’t like this any more then the students do, but don’t see any other option that would make the unis listen.
Don> A really important point that I have not seen raised in this
Don> discussion is that, in the case of RMIT, the university administration
Don> knew about the results ban as early as 23 September. The RMIT NTEU
Don> Branch tried to get the RMIT Administration to send information about
Don> exemptions to all students as early as possible. If this had happened,
Don> there would be no last minute panic to process exemptions.
Don> For what it is worth, I will be sending out personal e-mails to all of
Don> the 250 students in the three subjects that I taught this semester on
Don> Monday with their “unofficial” grades. These will be unofficial only
Don> because they are not in the RMIT systems.
November 28th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
# Stewart Says:
November 28th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Sharon, a lot of people are treated unfairly at work. Guess who are the most vulnerable? Casuals, young people and international students. Guess who is being negatively affected by the NTEU? Students, who are often casuals and mostly young.
Don> And part of what we are fighting for in this Agreement is better
Don> conditions for the casual (often student) tutors who are part of your
Don> education. At RMIT, at least, they have beem paid a fixed number of
Don> hours per semester for marking, even if it takes much longer. Is it
Don> any wonder that assignments come back late and often with mimimum
Don> comments from the marker?
So while I believe fair workplace relations are important, I also believe that the way you go about achieving fairness is important. It’s a ‘the ends don’t justify the means’ thing. The NTEU is using an unfair method towards a supposedly fair end and that is what students here are upset about.
Don> As I mentioned elsewhere, the NTEU has tried to communicate about the
Don> exemption process to all students – the University Administration,
Don> which controls the “all students” mailing list has made this
Don> impossible. There was a time, pre John Howard when all students were
Don> members of the Student Union and they could have sent a mass mailing,
Don> but that was not an option.
Don> And the NTEU has been communicating with members about ways of giving
Don> grades to students unofficially. There are so few things that we can
Don> do that affect the university without affecting teaching that we
Don> pretty much have to use what leverage we have.
Don> Yes, there were strikes that affected teaching — but they were care-
Don> fully “staggered” across different days so that the same subjects
Don> would not suffer multiple disruptions.
Don> I’m doing everyting that I can to make this as “painless” as possible
Don> for students while maintaining the bans.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Don, it seems rather self-defeating for the NTEU to fight for the rights of casuals who are often students, by harming students.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
I SAY WE PROTEST AGAINST THIS UNION! THE NTEU HAS GOT TO GO! WITHOUT STUDENTS YOU WOULDN’T HAVE A PURPOSE. PUNISH OTHERS NOT THE ONES WHO ENSURE YOU HAVE A JOB!
November 29th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Whilst it is understandable that the union wishes to get their point across regarding a better standard of education, I personally fail to see how withholding our results is going to do anything but get students offside with your members. Your members have every right to ensure their voice is heard, I just hope they realise at the same time they are losing respect from students.
Students have been very patient with your members this year, particularly when they have taken industrial action during class time that we (the students) pay for in our fees.
I applied for an exemption only to be told by your members that I have missed the “deadline” and will now have to wait until an agreement is met on these bans. That is not the response I want to hear.
No wonder unions in this country are becoming increasingly irrelevant in the workplace.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:03 am
What is being done here is disgusting. Now I might have to wait three days to obtain my results, which would otherwise have been released this morning. Who’s idea was this? Whoever is responsible should be kicked up the arse.
Not happy. Do something more productive you muppets!
November 30th, 2009 at 9:06 am
This is ridiculous. How can the union justify witholding students results? What is their aim? How will this help staff?
I have applied and paid to graduate on 16 December, but, thanks to this union, I don’t know if I can participate in this graduation since I don’t have official results!
Will this union reimburse me for the cost of attending the graduation ceremony if I don’t get my results? I’m not the only person affected by this so are they prepared to reimburse everyone?
I’ve applied to the exemption now have to wait three days to hear back. This is utterly ridiculous.
Nice work NTEU, you really know how to get people on your side.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:17 am
I didn’t pass everything last semester and have to repeat a couple of units. Problems within my family have affected me…. I have to pass everything in order to be allowed to continue my course. But now i’m going to be a nervouse wreck and worried sick until i get my results. I’m just going to presume the worst.
This is not fair. We, the students should not have to suffer so NTEU can get a freaking pay rise! I agree with others that they are not doing a very good job of getting people on their side.
Well done guys, I hope that your all happy. While proving your point, you have caused distress and unhappiness to many, many students. Well done.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:59 am
What the hell did we do? Give me my result now.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Pretty rude……..very rude.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Some people i know from RMIT have got their results. Which students specifically are affected by this?
November 30th, 2009 at 10:06 am
give me my result n ill support yous
November 30th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
I just know one thing, WE STUDENTS are the most vulnerable group, especially WE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS. We paid huge money to get services, BUT NOW WE ARE SUFFERING.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Kathy if you have only learnt one thing from doing a degree then i’d ask the university for my money back.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Writers who use ‘text’ speak or capitals to get their point across are nuff nuffs who could have done with remedial classes back in grade one.
Also who in their right mind would fly across the world to be at a graduation ceremony, a certificate is sufficant proof that one has completed a degree.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
I hate unions. None of the students care about what the NTEU wants or what they are doing. You say that you are trying to ‘disrupt the administration’ by withholding results but all you have done is alienate the student body.
Good luck getting any of our support for anything you do ever again.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Kyle stick to hassling single mothers.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
This was an asinine move if I ever saw one. It makes things really difficult for us as there was little/no warning; and precious few knew about the exemption mechanism.
I don’t see how NTEU is going to benefit by alienating the students.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Dear Albert, I didn’t say I only learned one thing FROM MY DEGREE, did I?
November 30th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
what’s that means?!!!!
where is my result??????
I dont care how the union going but give me my result!
PLZ~~~~~
November 30th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
I have a friend studying at regional university (CSU wagga) where teaching staff have got so feed up with the workload and conditions they had that 8 of the 11 staff who teach her accounting degree have left over the last 18 months, and one of the remaining is going on maternity leave next year.
When I told her the result ban she just laughed at me… she is much more worried about if she has anyone left to teach her so she can finish her degree.
So maybe waiting a while for my results, if it means having lecturers to finish my degree maybe worth it, I know my friend thinks so.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Whats with the ban being lifted now? When will the marks be displayed? I can see my marks against the subject.
Sarah @ ‘Also who in their right mind would fly across the world to be at a graduation ceremony, a certificate is sufficant proof that one has completed a degree.’
There happen to be people in this world who consider completion of a professional degree to be an accomplishment.
I am unsure how you celebrate a joyous occasion in Australia but where we come from, we celebrate such an achievement with our families.
Either you never learnt about family values or maybe you never had one to care enough about you.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:13 pm
NEVER SUPPORT A UNION – THEY ARE ONLY IN EXISTANCE TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES!
December 1st, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Unions support there members, HR workers support themselves, little Tyler’s bully has a big future ahead of him working in HR.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:59 pm
I fully support NTEU’s decision. Under-resource (not just pay) and high rate of casual staff have been an ongoing problem of RMIT which affect the university in long term.
It’s true that students did nothing wrong but I believe most results have been uploaded and will show in EOL tomorrow.
Think about future, mates. You don’t want to be told next year that lectures are cancelled because lecturers move to other unis. Even if you are graduating, as this will damage the reputation of RMIT, your degree will “worth” less in future.
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:27 pm
When a Union strikes, it must choose an action that directly affects the party that it is bargaining with and have minimal affect on other stakeholders. This is a simple and fundamental fact. The NTEU, consisting of Professors and Academics, are apparently not clever enough to understand this. Shocking really!
So what makes them different from a striking coal miner or mill worker? Nothing really!
Perhaps they thought up this action over quite a few beers at the local pub. I fail to see how this action affects the university. The students know that the uni is not initiating it and will therefore sympathise with the uni. The NTEU on the other hand has proved yet again that they are absolutely worthless, not to mention selfish. If you want more money, do things the right way! Work harder, prove your worth and then reap benefits. It is a known fact that senior professors think of teaching as a distraction from their research agendas. To that end then, they should not work at Universities and probably in the R&D labs of large corporations. It is a win-win scenario. More money and no teaching. Then perhaps we will finally get a faculty that is interested in imparting knowledge.
To the members of the NTEU, stop your actions. Quit your jobs and follow this alternate course of action. There is nothing wrong with wanting more money but please do not hide behind this farce of teaching. It demeans you and your bright intellects. I have tried very hard to keep this comment civil and free of obscenities but rest assured you do not deserve such respect. Forget support, you do not even deserve a fair go!!
December 2nd, 2009 at 4:13 pm
I am a mature age student hoping to graduate on 15th December and I fully support the union. What’s with all the whinging? If it inconveniences you, apply for an exemption (as I have done) and all will be well. If you don’t need the marks straight away, then support your teachers hope that they gain better conditions for themselves and for you and I. A lot of you haven’t experienced the unfair world out there (apart from a bit of part-time and casual work), so trust me when I say that unions are important to keep the employers honest. Don’t blame the teaching staff, as Melb Uni should take the blame as they have has well over a year to resolve this.
If the universities cared about you, the student, they would have acted before now!
Either the majority of you haven’t had a career/full-time work and had a union step in to protect your job and your pay. Trust me, when you work for some of the employers out there and have firsthand experience of real working conditons, then you’ll wish you had a union working to protect you. Melb Uni’s slipping in its ranking and reputation and I for one think that it is only the fantastic work done by the (good) lecturers, that makes me want to come back next year. Although, there are some pretty awful lecturers out there, the majority that I have had teach me, spend a lot of (unpaid) time helping students, preparing lectures, marking, supervising their postgrads and continuing their research.
Am sick of hearing about students whinging about graduating when all you have to do is fill in the form!
December 2nd, 2009 at 4:55 pm
To “God Help The NTEU”
Please hold your hands up. Now, walk over to the nearest wall. Proceed to bash your hands against the wall until they are mangled and in need of urgent medical attention.
Then never write anything on the internet. Ever again.
Your stupidity makes every single one of my brain cells want to commit suicide.
Now I know you’re all screaming “play the ball and not the man” and I will, but my frustrations with this complete imbecile required more than a clever rebuttal of his drivel.
In order:
1) Yes, because not transmitting results only affects students. Nevermind the administrative cluster*#^@ that it forsakes upon University Administration who have deadlines and grad ceremonies to organise.
2) Are you serious about quitting uni posts to get lucrative R+D positions at big corporations? Do you not realise that these can be extremely rare to find, not to mention limiting in that you’re working to the corporation’s specification and not yours. Many researchers at university do so at a uni because of the freedom of choice in their work afforded to them by such a post.
3) Who are you to tell someone what to do with their lives? Some arrogant little uni student who thinks he knows everything about the world. Methinks you’re the one who needs an alternate course of action. It’s two words, starts with a ‘g’ and ends in a ‘d’ and follows the syntax “g– —–d”.
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Lovin’ the hypocrisy there. “Take a chill pill, NOW STUFF UR HEAD UP THEIR ASSES!!!111111″ I can feel your self-entitled, over-inflated sense of self-importance being SERIOUSLY BUTTHURT. “Most dirty and underhanded stunt ever pulled in the history of education” :’) You really have a warped sense of reality. Go tell that to the thousands of private college students who got sodomised with a spiked steel rod by the dodgy private education colleges that scammed them. Jesus christ you need a reality check.
It only takes half the academics to participate to cause a sizeable headache for university administration. Some academics do get better pay and are happy with their level of treatment, that happens in any organisation as big as RMIT or UoM. But a large number of them, in this case half, have been so badly treated by the university that they needed to resort to this. You really have to stop and think about how bad they’re being treated when the pedagogues (the people who voluntarily signed up to teach us) are taking these measures.
Many academics actually manually gave students their marks, even though they were not obliged to… You really need to wake up and realise that no transmission of results SERIOUSLY messes with the university administration and their ability to process their end-of-year paperwork etc. There’s some real short-sightedness going on here. Lots of self-entitled brats whinging about themselves without realising that yes, this is most effective, and that yes, there is a good reason for it. Your myopia is clearly revealed in your last sentence. Stop looking introspectively, and start sympathising with the world aroung you. Kthx.
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:35 pm
Errata:
change “private college students” to “international private college students”
also by “voluntarily signed up”, I mean chose pedagogy as their career path.
December 3rd, 2009 at 4:56 pm
I am amazed at the magnitude of people who will be receiving degrees still cannot spell or use proper grammar.
December 4th, 2009 at 4:22 am
I’m sorry if I’m totally missing the point of this, but can someone please explain to me how this inconveniences uni administration more than the students, regardless of whether a student is an exemption case or not? yes, they do need to organise grad ceremonies etc however this is ultimately not for them, its for the students. so Daniel, I don’t mean to pick on you but how do you mean its a ‘cluster f%&$’ for the staff? Its not like the ceremonies are for them, both these and the results are what we the students pay for. Either way we are not getting a service we paid for. NTEU need to have come out with a comprehensive explanation to those being effected, ie the students, and this just hasn’t happened.
All I have seen from the NTEU is a poster saying ‘Results bans are now on’ dotted around the campus with no further information – when I passed through visiting a friend who lives there I might add (I didn’t have exams/class during the exam period, only going there for submissions, and if I did have exams I would have been off campus like the majority of Melbourne uni). This needed to be communicated to us EFFECTIVELY, and there was not so much as an email to me from any student/NTEU representatives in support/behind this!!
The only person who did email us was our beloved Provost. As much as I detest Glyn and his cronies for their phallic-inspired Melbourne Model, you have got to say they are the ones who come up smelling like roses this time.
December 4th, 2009 at 7:06 am
I am sick of the people who say, “Unions protect you in the real world so you should support them now.”
It’s like saying, “Governments bring order to countries so you should not question the government.” Yes it is generally true that government is needed to bring order but there is a difference between a government that is good, fair and just and a government that is corrupt and dysfunctional.
I am going to judge a union based on their actions. I refuse to support the action of the NTEU because some people have been protected by their unions elsewhere. That’s stupid. We should judge the NTEU’s actions based on what those actions are, who they effect and how. It is foolish to unquestioningly support unions because they’re unions.
I once had a pay dispute and I was a member of a trade union. I asked the union to help me out thinking it wasn’t a big deal and the union should easily win my case. I had already gathered all the evidence of a clear violation of my contract. The union sucked and just accepted what my employer said. So I went to the workplaces ombudsman (for free) and my employer paid out pretty quick. The lesson I took away from this was that a union isn’t always the best solution and its actions aren’t always going to be successful.
So, I encourage students to think critically about what’s going on here and not just to accept the unionist line. Some actions are ethical, others are not. We should hold unions to the same ethical standards as everyone else.
To me, this is just like an elder sibling withholding a toy from a much younger sibling and demanding that their parent gives them more dessert before releasing it. It’s not fair on the younger sibling and we would see the elder sibling as a bully. We’re not going to say it’s ok because s/he was the first-born, just like we shouldn’t say this is ok because the NTEU is a union.
December 4th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Well put Bradley – I think these threads have generally been fed by arts students who have dribbled post-modern clap trap throughout their degree – but I like the way you summarised this situation.
My two cents:
Unions have the right to protest
Staff have the right to collectively bargain
Students have the right to object to the action
and access to their results
The Uni needs to lift their game
The union need a course of action that affects the ‘future’
If these are the cards we are dealt – I’ll play them this way: if my results are delayed, I will not renew my student union membership as a personal protest. This is my right and if it were collectively done, as is the union way, the student union may reconsider the value of this action and may not support the NTEU so quickly in future.
It may not achieve much, but it my right and if you think the union will react to this action, the uni might too. But if you ask me – neither will.
Good luck to all – except arts students. (results or not – you have no future)
December 4th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
The likes of David should be promptly expelled from the union. David reminds me of people who say “No offence but”, of course we know what they are generally about to say is going to offensive.
David’s above post is like saying I wish everyone all the best, that is of course unless you are a Jew.
David do you think people working in HR just appear, no they got a degree and weren’t good enough to do anything else so they now work at trying to bring everyone down to their level.
December 4th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
‘promptly expelled from the union’
Harsh, controlling words don’t you think? – Take a moment to come down to my level for a sec and then you can return to your higher ground.
No one has a monopoly on morality Leo and we all have a right to post an opinion – isn’t that why these threads are here?. Man, if you only knew my religion, union involvment, work history and education – you’d laugh. Be assured, I will never exlude an individual for a belief, religion, opinion or intelect.
You’ll have to accept that if I pay my union fees, I am then entitled to be part of the union and that includes my own view and self expression. The union is not exclusive, it is quite the opposite. This being said, I am sorry to provoke you Leo, I do apologise for the arts degree crack for it was meant to be light-hearted – with hindsight, I do agree it was inapropriate and I honestly don’t believe what I wrote.
I’ll stick to the topic from here on end.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
I completely fail to see how this affects the uni. Don’t get me wrong, I support the staff in their endeavours, this is just the wrong way for them to go about it.
I see dozens of ways this is affecting students, but I can’t see it affecting the University itself at all. They aren’t worried about us not knowing if we’ve failed subjects or if we need to do summer subjects or supplementary exams. Surely there’s some way to hit them where it actually hurts?
I’m really surprised that the student union is supporting an action that causes undue stress and harm to it’s members. I didn’t think they were that out of touch.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:29 am
cost= students
benefit= union members
why are students the cost in a game between the nteu and the universities?
fair?
December 6th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Gemma, they still have to file all of their paperwork before the year end.
University shuts down on 23rd dec. If they still don’t have everyone’s results by then, they can’t do all the administrative processing that they need to do, and so will have to keep staff working over christmas at penalty rates… Or, if their workers exercise their rights and choose not to work over christmas, UoM is fudged.
For all those worried about not getting their marks, UoM will need htem by the 15th at the latest to shut down on time on the 23rd. Mark my words, they will capitulate :)
December 7th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
This is just plainly unfair form NTEU.
The directly annoy and upset students but have given up little themselves. The strikes held earlier this year were not a sacrifice as the vast majority of staff continued to teach. I think this showed the that union has not going to get support for strikes from the membership so they devised a tactic that would not be opposed by teachers but aggravate the students as an innocent 3rd party. Students do not deserve this and MUSU have erred by supporting NTEU when the majority of its members do not.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:04 am
I think it is very hypocritical of the NTEU to say that the University is not “prioritising student learning and education” when they themselves are hindering students.
December 8th, 2009 at 11:59 am
http://www.unimelb.edu.au/ppp/docs/16.html
for all those interested to see current pay conditions
December 10th, 2009 at 7:26 am
Ahh, the moment of truth has dawned. The game theory has been played and now action between the Uni and the NTEU is due for display.
All have been very quiet on the issue – has it been resolved or will the ban go ahead?
Very unpopular action from “those who can’t”
I don’t feel too many warm and fuzzies – just a greater divide and I really want to see my results but I feel the exemption form is a threat.
We know what they think of scabs – as if I’m going to put my details on a picket line.
As a student – this is very intimidating: you got the power? no just the ordacity.
December 10th, 2009 at 10:33 am
What is the point of applying for an exemption when staff for the subject then ignore it and and refuse to release your results on time anyway!!!!!!?
I received an exemption on the 27th of November – this was promptly emailed to all my lecturers, as instructed, and yet all of my results have not been released on time (this morning).
I consider this action to ignore exemptions extremely unprofessional and I am very angry and annoyed. This has unnecessarily added to my stress while i am trying to get all the paperwork for my job for next year through by the end of next week.
December 10th, 2009 at 11:54 am
ermmm is this ban on or not?? simple question…
December 10th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
I got my results – not sure what happened but they’re there.
Maybe none of my subjects were affected.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:06 am
I got my results too, but I really sympathise with anonymous (at #436) on account of being granted an ‘exemption’ that wasn’t actually given.
I’m really unsurprised that they didn’t keep their promise to a student.
I also got my results. I guess it just shows that the NTEU is too weak to really effect any kind of action. The academics who are taking part in this are just a small petulant minority who are determined to barge their way into the top income-brackets through thuggery rather than merit and hard work.
Now that the deadline for results release has passed, the ‘damage’ has already been done and the University is under little to no obligation to negotiatie under the threat of this action. To their credit, the University did improve its salary offer to a 15% guaranateed increase. However, I’m glad that the NTEU didn’t take it because I don’t want to see its bad behaviour being rewarded.
I’d like to see the University withdraw this improved offer and reconsider, based on the organisational situation of the University and the needs of staff (not NTEU).
Now that the NTEU has run out of options and exhausted all their bargaining chips (students included) it looks like they’ll be the ones capitulating.
December 11th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
I am getting the feeling that a lot of the complaints about the industrial action on this page are coming from people with a vested interest, ideological or otherwise, in slamming the NTEU and/or MUSU.
I am a postgrad student at Melbourne, and I am affected by the ban too, but I fully support lecturers’ right to strike.
This page should be used for genuine discussion, not partisan union-bashing campaigns by the Young Liberals or whoever you all are
December 11th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Frankly, (and maybe somewhat selfishly) I’m really not interested in the agenda’s of either the NTEU nor the universities. Maybe the NTEU is justified in the withholding of students’ results, maybe not. I’m interested in (and I’m assuming most students affected by the NTEU ban are interested in) receiving my results, or at least knowing when this will happen. If anybody knows a possible date for this, or a date when the two parties recommence negotiations, I would much appreciate the publication of it.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Rick – You disagree with me and so I must be a young liberal. I disagree with you so you must be a socialist alternative member.
My vested interest is getting my results. I didn’t really care about the other strikes – that was between them and the University. But then they tried to withhold my results it inspired a strong dislike of the NTEU.
Then I saw the NTEU’s report where they complain about only receiving top 10 pay in the sector and it inspired a much stronger sense of resentment.
http://universitybargaining.com.au/2009/12/how-relative-salaries-at-the-university-of-melbourne-have-fallen/
Oh pity the worker who gets paid $60-90 thousand a year.
December 12th, 2009 at 1:50 am
Just give me my results.
Where can i get the stupid form? I just want to graduate.
December 13th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
As a student whose results have been affected by the strike, I visited this website to read the NTEU perspective on why my results have been withheld. I was not notified in advance of any ban.
I understand the following:
1.) While the ban is supposedly designed to improve teaching conditions and the quality of education for students, the actual purpose of the ban appears to be about salary. Students have the option to make this complaint themselves. The banning of their own results is not a course of action students would be comfortable with.
2.) University staff have agreed to their contracts. If they wish to earn higher salaries, they have the option to resign.
3.) The teachers participating in the strike represent a minority of Melbourne University staff
4.) A ban on results does not pressure University management. It only serves to unfairly target students, who are not at fault for the problems the NTEU alleges. Furthermore, it is callous to the rights and needs of students.
So much for one of the purported aims of the strike being to benefit students. It is ironic that striking staff argue to be treated with respect, but feel entitled themselves to infringe on student’s rights.
December 14th, 2009 at 8:18 am
Hi Brian,
The link to the exemptions form is in the article above.
You can click here.
Kind Regards
Webmaster